Injuries discussion

Its over for everyone, Brett is back..

PackersOwnAll wrote:

Its over for everyone, Brett is back..

OVERRATED

Nerd85 wrote:

PackersOwnAll wrote:

Its over for everyone, Brett is back..

OVERRATED

You know alot about football huh?

PackersOwnAll wrote:

Nerd85 wrote:

PackersOwnAll wrote:

Its over for everyone, Brett is back..

OVERRATED

You know alot about football huh?

I agree... He was a great QB no doubt but people saying hes the best of all time is a joke or even close to the best of all time, hes top 5 in my mind maybe but not even close to #1, its not hard to get records when you play until your 38...

mksadng wrote:

PackersOwnAll wrote:

Nerd85 wrote:

PackersOwnAll wrote:

Its over for everyone, Brett is back..

OVERRATED

You know alot about football huh?

I agree... He was a great QB no doubt but people saying hes the best of all time is a joke or even close to the best of all time, hes top 5 in my mind maybe but not even close to #1, its not hard to get records when you play until your 38...

Im not going to argue, i dont want to start a mess.

PackersOwnAll wrote:

mksadng wrote:

PackersOwnAll wrote:

Nerd85 wrote:

PackersOwnAll wrote:

Its over for everyone, Brett is back..

OVERRATED

You know alot about football huh?

I agree... He was a great QB no doubt but people saying hes the best of all time is a joke or even close to the best of all time, hes top 5 in my mind maybe but not even close to #1, its not hard to get records when you play until your 38...

Im not going to argue, i dont want to start a mess.

Bring it...

mksadng wrote:

PackersOwnAll wrote:

mksadng wrote:

PackersOwnAll wrote:

Nerd85 wrote:

PackersOwnAll wrote:

Its over for everyone, Brett is back..

OVERRATED

You know alot about football huh?

I agree... He was a great QB no doubt but people saying hes the best of all time is a joke or even close to the best of all time, hes top 5 in my mind maybe but not even close to #1, its not hard to get records when you play until your 38...

Im not going to argue, i dont want to start a mess.

Bring it...

Its OK to argue in here.

BTW, mksadng is right on this.

Everyone just chooses to ignore the fact that he averaged more than 1 INT per game.

He was a good QB, but he is way way overrated by the fans and media.

It kinda pisses me off

Nerd85 wrote:

He was a good QB, but he is way way overrated by the fans and media.

It kinda pisses me off

I'm not denying that he was good, just saying he is overrated.

dan marino isnt impressive either? him and favre both played 17 seasons. And Unitas played 18 seasons.

I think everyone is wrong here, people think favres old, when in reality he just lasted as long as any hall of fame quarterback.

that being said, I still think favre is over-rated, mainly because trevor likes him so much.

Touchdown Jesus! wrote:

dan marino isnt impressive either? him and favre both played 17 seasons. And Unitas played 18 seasons.

I think everyone is wrong here, people think favres old, when in reality he just lasted as long as any hall of fame quarterback.

that being said, I still think favre is over-rated, mainly because trevor likes him so much.

No but Dan Marino doesnt hold the record for INTs...

Touchdown Jesus! wrote:

dan marino isnt impressive either? him and favre both played 17 seasons. And Unitas played 18 seasons.

I think everyone is wrong here, people think favres old, when in reality he just lasted as long as any hall of fame quarterback.

that being said, I still think favre is over-rated, mainly because trevor likes him so much.

I never said he was overrated for being old... whatever that means.

mksadng wrote:

No but Dan Marino doesnt hold the record for INTs...

he doesnt hold the record for TDs anymore either...

nerd wrote:

I never said he was overrated for being old... whatever that means.

I never said you did, mk said something about the fact hes 38 and then I think sox said something else about that so I was merely talking about them.

Touchdown Jesus! wrote:

mksadng wrote:

No but Dan Marino doesnt hold the record for INTs...

he doesnt hold the record for TDs anymore either...

nerd wrote:

I never said he was overrated for being old... whatever that means.

I never said you did, mk said something about the fact hes 38 and then I think sox said something else about that so I was merely talking about them.

Nope, I just talked about his INTs. I respect the fact that he played all those consecutive games and how far he played until, but that still doesn't change the fact that he is overrated.

well you quoted mk when he said its easy to set record when you play until your 38 and you said "mk is right about this" so I just figured.

and INTs or not, favre averages only like 1 less PR then marino does. Having the INTs he has and still maintaining a PR like that is impressive. Not to mention GB has always been a passing team, what do you expect?

Touchdown Jesus! wrote:

well you quoted mk when he said its easy to set record when you play until your 38 and you said "mk is right about this" so I just figured.

and INTs or not, favre averages only like 1 less PR then marino does. Having the INTs he has and still maintaining a PR like that is impressive. Not to mention GB has always been a passing team, what do you expect?

I expect him TO NOT THROW GOD DAMN INTERCEPTIONS

Nerd85 wrote:

Touchdown Jesus! wrote:

well you quoted mk when he said its easy to set record when you play until your 38 and you said "mk is right about this" so I just figured.

and INTs or not, favre averages only like 1 less PR then marino does. Having the INTs he has and still maintaining a PR like that is impressive. Not to mention GB has always been a passing team, what do you expect?

I expect him TO NOT THROW GOD DAMN INTERCEPTIONS

Agreed, the Patriots are a passing team too and look at Brady's stats, 86 INT in 112 games. That argument doesn't really work.

SoxNats08 wrote:

Nerd85 wrote:

Touchdown Jesus! wrote:

well you quoted mk when he said its easy to set record when you play until your 38 and you said "mk is right about this" so I just figured.

and INTs or not, favre averages only like 1 less PR then marino does. Having the INTs he has and still maintaining a PR like that is impressive. Not to mention GB has always been a passing team, what do you expect?

I expect him TO NOT THROW GOD DAMN INTERCEPTIONS

Agreed, the Patriots are a passing team too and look at Brady's stats, 86 INT in 112 games. That argument doesn't really work.

they also had a better receiver core and the addition of a ground threat last year. Pats are a passing team, but when you play them you also have to watch out for the run, the pack didnt have that kind of ground threat (grant is dec but it was primarilly their dominant oline).

and nerd, no you dont expect you QB to not throw interceptions, you expect him to WIN.

Nerd85 wrote:

Touchdown Jesus! wrote:

well you quoted mk when he said its easy to set record when you play until your 38 and you said "mk is right about this" so I just figured.

and INTs or not, favre averages only like 1 less PR then marino does. Having the INTs he has and still maintaining a PR like that is impressive. Not to mention GB has always been a passing team, what do you expect?

I expect him TO NOT THROW GOD DAMN INTERCEPTIONS

He has a gunslinger mentality, what do you expect?

While he does own the INT record, he got it because of his aggressive style of play, which is why people loved it when he played (along with the passion that he exhibited). He played as long as Marino, and imo got that TD fair and square. He never missed a game. How much more do you want a guy to not be considered 'overrated'?

************
Rant on NE Follows:

Oh I forgot, lemme jump on the NE Patriots BANDWAGON, and proclaim Brady the greatest of all time.

Not going to accuse anyone, but I personally found it interesting - 8 years ago, you couldn't find a soul who supported the Patriots (where I lived, there was 1 kid who liked them, and he was from up North, loved the Red Sox too). Nowadays, you can usually find at least one a day, no matter where you go, and at least a dozen in sports bars on game day.

Now, I support the Titans, and I started to like them from right before the Super Bowl vs the Rams, you could have considered me bandwagon then (I didn't have a reason other than I liked McNair), but I've stuck through with them through the down years, and have invested my time, money, and interest in them.

I'm just wondering how many of these "New England Patriots" fans are going to be around when Brady retires, BB moves on, and they crawl back to obscurity that they were dwelling in until the video tape era.

0-3 in Super Bowls outside the video taping era.
3-0 in Super Bowls during the video taping era.

Not going to say if the tapes did or did not help, but the facts show that BB has not been entirely forthcoming, and some questions are yet unanswered, but when one looks back on this decade during the 2020s, 2030s, don't you think they'll raise their eyebrows when they see that?

Now, if BB and Brady continue to win and win 3 of the next 5 SB or whatever, sure, great. However, those previous SB victories did play a role (and potentially those tapes). They helped establish a winning attitude and a desire in veteran players who wished to win to go there for less money.

How things would have been without the taping, no one will ever know. But those tapes could either have almost no significance in games (even at minimum, they helped for signals vs division rivals, and that's minimum), or those tapes could have unimaginable ramifications (influence championship teams, and future teams).

Meh.
*****************

Back to Favre discussion:

http://www.nfl.com/history/randf/records/indiv/passing

Those are stats after the 2006 season, not updated for 2007 season yet, so we are going to use a reliable source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_(individual)

Most Pass Attempts, Career, 8,758, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Pass Completions, Career, 5,377, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Passing Touchdowns, Career, 442, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Passing Interceptions, Career, 288, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Passing Yards, Career, 61,657, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Games, 300 Yards or More Passing, Career, 63, Brett Favre, 1991-2008

Leads 5 of the desirable categories for passing, 1 undesirable category


Now let's break down his stats against what is considered to be the "Gold Standard" for Quarterbacks for this time (I'm sure in the future, people will use Favre, Manning(Peyton), and Brady as the "Gold Standards"), Dan Marino:

http://www.nfl.com/players/careerstats?id=FAV540222

Career Stats
TDs - 442
INTs - 288
YDS - 61,655
RTG - 85.7
Games played - 257
Attempts - 8,758
Completions - 5,377
Completion % - 61.4%
Yards per Game - 239.9
TD % - 5
INT % - 3.3
Sacks - 439

Won't consider rushing, etc.

http://www.nfl.com/players/danmarino/careerstats?id=MAR149079

Career Stats
TDs - 420
INTs - 252
YDS - 61,361
RTG - 86.4
Games played - 242
Attempts - 8,358
Completions - 4,967
Completion % - 59.4%
Yards per Game - 253.6
TD % - 5
INT % - 3
Sacks - 270

Additional stats - Since they joined their respective teams (Fins and Packers), both QBs have only had 1 losing (below .500) season.

Marino played with 2 HOF: His Center, Dwight Stephenson 57, C (1980-87), Elected 1998; and his coach, Don Shula, Head Coach (1970-95), Elected 1997

Favre played with 1 HOF (Thus far): 92 Reggie White, DE, 1993-1998

Favre's rookie season was essentially a redshirt; one could state he played 16 seasons

Marino has fewer attempts, etc. due to one great advantage that Favre had: Marine got hurt in his career, Favre grinded it out through his injuries.

I recall Favre getting knocked hard in a game a few years back, staying in it, throwing a touchdown, then diagnosed with a concussion and left the game. How many QBs can say they drove their team and threw a TD during a game when they had a concussion?

At any rate, the stats show this: Favre has 22 more TDs, 26 more INTs, 294 more yards, .7 passer rating lower, 15 more total games played, 400 more attempts, 410 more completions, 2% more completions, 13.7 less yards per game, a higher TD to INT ratio (5:3.3 compared to 5:3), and many more sacks (169 more).

Overall:
Favre - More TDs, more INTs, more Yards, more Total games, more attempts, more completions, higher completion percentage
Marino - Higher passer rating, more yards per game, lower TD:INT ration, fewer sacks


Oh, almost forgot: Marino - 0 rings, Favre - 1 ring

And please don't use the argument that "Favre had more games to play in, so of course he'd get more records". The fact that (rookie season aside), he played in 16 consecutive seasons, all the games, and the playoff games, should not be used against him, but rather show a testiment of his toughness and durability, which are superior to Marino's. Also, stats show, he has 400 more attempts, but 410 more completions, higher percentage for completions. While it is true that he has many more INTs and higher TD-INT ratio than Marino, one must remember - Favre's style of play led to that. Not saying it is ok, but that is what Favre was known for - Cannon arm, gunslinger mentality, and passion for the game.


If you are calling a first ballot HOF QB, arguably one of the best EVER (I don't think we can state clear-cut who the single best QB who ever played the game was, perhaps it will be Manning or Brady when all is said and done), but to say he's overrated, means that every player who has ever laced up to play the QB position has to be overrated.

When people hype you up, you have to be worthy of that hype. With Favre being in the highest echelon of players who played the Quarterback position, how much 'higher' can you get? God? No, Favre is worthy of this hype, and as much as you people will hate it, Favre's legend will continue to go on for many years, and just as people talk about Marino constantly today as one of the best ever, people will continue to talk about Favre as one of the best ever. There will always be haters and those who dislike him for various reasons, but stats, and his style of playing, cannot be denied.

Favre did more than just play the game - he made the game fun to watch. I distinctly remember, when I was a kid, one of the first times I began to watch football on TV and see highlights, it was Favre and the Packers.

I am saddened, yet at the same time happy for Favre to retire, to go out on his own terms, rather than forced to retire due to injury or some other reason. The man didn't do it for the money (though that never hurts), he did it for the love of the game, something that you wish you saw more of in players nowadays.

Desert Demon wrote:

He has a gunslinger mentality, what do you expect?

While he does own the INT record, he got it because of his aggressive style of play, which is why people loved it when he played (along with the passion that he exhibited). He played as long as Marino, and imo got that TD fair and square. He never missed a game. How much more do you want a guy to not be considered 'overrated'?


-----------------------------------

Back to Favre discussion:

http://www.nfl.com/history/randf/records/indiv/passing

Those are stats after the 2006 season, not updated for 2007 season yet, so we are going to use a reliable source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_(individual)

Most Pass Attempts, Career, 8,758, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Pass Completions, Career, 5,377, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Passing Touchdowns, Career, 442, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Passing Interceptions, Career, 288, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Passing Yards, Career, 61,657, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Games, 300 Yards or More Passing, Career, 63, Brett Favre, 1991-2008

Leads 5 of the desirable categories for passing, 1 undesirable category


Now let's break down his stats against what is considered to be the "Gold Standard" for Quarterbacks for this time (I'm sure in the future, people will use Favre, Manning(Peyton), and Brady as the "Gold Standards"), Dan Marino:

http://www.nfl.com/players/careerstats?id=FAV540222

Career Stats
TDs - 442
INTs - 288
YDS - 61,655
RTG - 85.7
Games played - 257
Attempts - 8,758
Completions - 5,377
Completion % - 61.4%
Yards per Game - 239.9
TD % - 5
INT % - 3.3
Sacks - 439

Won't consider rushing, etc.

http://www.nfl.com/players/danmarino/careerstats?id=MAR149079

Career Stats
TDs - 420
INTs - 252
YDS - 61,361
RTG - 86.4
Games played - 242
Attempts - 8,358
Completions - 4,967
Completion % - 59.4%
Yards per Game - 253.6
TD % - 5
INT % - 3
Sacks - 270

Additional stats - Since they joined their respective teams (Fins and Packers), both QBs have only had 1 losing (below .500) season.

Marino played with 2 HOF: His Center, Dwight Stephenson 57, C (1980-87), Elected 1998; and his coach, Don Shula, Head Coach (1970-95), Elected 1997

Favre played with 1 HOF (Thus far): 92 Reggie White, DE, 1993-1998

Favre's rookie season was essentially a redshirt; one could state he played 16 seasons

Marino has fewer attempts, etc. due to one great advantage that Favre had: Marine got hurt in his career, Favre grinded it out through his injuries.

I recall Favre getting knocked hard in a game a few years back, staying in it, throwing a touchdown, then diagnosed with a concussion and left the game. How many QBs can say they drove their team and threw a TD during a game when they had a concussion?

At any rate, the stats show this: Favre has 22 more TDs, 26 more INTs, 294 more yards, .7 passer rating lower, 15 more total games played, 400 more attempts, 410 more completions, 2% more completions, 13.7 less yards per game, a higher TD to INT ratio (5:3.3 compared to 5:3), and many more sacks (169 more).

Overall:
Favre - More TDs, more INTs, more Yards, more Total games, more attempts, more completions, higher completion percentage
Marino - Higher passer rating, more yards per game, lower TD:INT ration, fewer sacks


Oh, almost forgot: Marino - 0 rings, Favre - 1 ring

And please don't use the argument that "Favre had more games to play in, so of course he'd get more records". The fact that (rookie season aside), he played in 16 consecutive seasons, all the games, and the playoff games, should not be used against him, but rather show a testiment of his toughness and durability, which are superior to Marino's. Also, stats show, he has 400 more attempts, but 410 more completions, higher percentage for completions. While it is true that he has many more INTs and higher TD-INT ratio than Marino, one must remember - Favre's style of play led to that. Not saying it is ok, but that is what Favre was known for - Cannon arm, gunslinger mentality, and passion for the game.


If you are calling a first ballot HOF QB, arguably one of the best EVER (I don't think we can state clear-cut who the single best QB who ever played the game was, perhaps it will be Manning or Brady when all is said and done), but to say he's overrated, means that every player who has ever laced up to play the QB position has to be overrated.

When people hype you up, you have to be worthy of that hype. With Favre being in the highest echelon of players who played the Quarterback position, how much 'higher' can you get? God? No, Favre is worthy of this hype, and as much as you people will hate it, Favre's legend will continue to go on for many years, and just as people talk about Marino constantly today as one of the best ever, people will continue to talk about Favre as one of the best ever. There will always be haters and those who dislike him for various reasons, but stats, and his style of playing, cannot be denied.

Favre did more than just play the game - he made the game fun to watch. I distinctly remember, when I was a kid, one of the first times I began to watch football on TV and see highlights, it was Favre and the Packers.

I am saddened, yet at the same time happy for Favre to retire, to go out on his own terms, rather than forced to retire due to injury or some other reason. The man didn't do it for the money (though that never hurts), he did it for the love of the game, something that you wish you saw more of in players nowadays.

Thank you.

I have been saying these things forever, this post wraps it all up.

Favre is not overrated, if you say that, your are biased or not a football fan at all. Players respect him, coachs respect him, other team's fan's respect him. He has heart. He has devotion. He is one of the best ever. There is that argument that hes not as good as Montana and Young because of rings, but i still say Favre is the best because of stats. Even his INT record. I don't care what you all think, its opinions, so your arguments won't change my mind. This is the only time I am posting in here.

Desert Demon wrote:

Nerd85 wrote:

Touchdown Jesus! wrote:

well you quoted mk when he said its easy to set record when you play until your 38 and you said "mk is right about this" so I just figured.

and INTs or not, favre averages only like 1 less PR then marino does. Having the INTs he has and still maintaining a PR like that is impressive. Not to mention GB has always been a passing team, what do you expect?

I expect him TO NOT THROW GOD DAMN INTERCEPTIONS

He has a gunslinger mentality, what do you expect?

While he does own the INT record, he got it because of his aggressive style of play, which is why people loved it when he played (along with the passion that he exhibited). He played as long as Marino, and imo got that TD fair and square. He never missed a game. How much more do you want a guy to not be considered 'overrated'?

************
Rant on NE Follows:

Oh I forgot, lemme jump on the NE Patriots BANDWAGON, and proclaim Brady the greatest of all time.

Not going to accuse anyone, but I personally found it interesting - 8 years ago, you couldn't find a soul who supported the Patriots (where I lived, there was 1 kid who liked them, and he was from up North, loved the Red Sox too). Nowadays, you can usually find at least one a day, no matter where you go, and at least a dozen in sports bars on game day.

Now, I support the Titans, and I started to like them from right before the Super Bowl vs the Rams, you could have considered me bandwagon then (I didn't have a reason other than I liked McNair), but I've stuck through with them through the down years, and have invested my time, money, and interest in them.

I'm just wondering how many of these "New England Patriots" fans are going to be around when Brady retires, BB moves on, and they crawl back to obscurity that they were dwelling in until the video tape era.

0-3 in Super Bowls outside the video taping era.
3-0 in Super Bowls during the video taping era.

Not going to say if the tapes did or did not help, but the facts show that BB has not been entirely forthcoming, and some questions are yet unanswered, but when one looks back on this decade during the 2020s, 2030s, don't you think they'll raise their eyebrows when they see that?

Now, if BB and Brady continue to win and win 3 of the next 5 SB or whatever, sure, great. However, those previous SB victories did play a role (and potentially those tapes). They helped establish a winning attitude and a desire in veteran players who wished to win to go there for less money.

How things would have been without the taping, no one will ever know. But those tapes could either have almost no significance in games (even at minimum, they helped for signals vs division rivals, and that's minimum), or those tapes could have unimaginable ramifications (influence championship teams, and future teams).

Meh.
*****************

Back to Favre discussion:

http://www.nfl.com/history/randf/records/indiv/passing

Those are stats after the 2006 season, not updated for 2007 season yet, so we are going to use a reliable source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_(individual)

Most Pass Attempts, Career, 8,758, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Pass Completions, Career, 5,377, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Passing Touchdowns, Career, 442, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Passing Interceptions, Career, 288, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Passing Yards, Career, 61,657, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Games, 300 Yards or More Passing, Career, 63, Brett Favre, 1991-2008

Leads 5 of the desirable categories for passing, 1 undesirable category


Now let's break down his stats against what is considered to be the "Gold Standard" for Quarterbacks for this time (I'm sure in the future, people will use Favre, Manning(Peyton), and Brady as the "Gold Standards"), Dan Marino:

http://www.nfl.com/players/careerstats?id=FAV540222

Career Stats
TDs - 442
INTs - 288
YDS - 61,655
RTG - 85.7
Games played - 257
Attempts - 8,758
Completions - 5,377
Completion % - 61.4%
Yards per Game - 239.9
TD % - 5
INT % - 3.3
Sacks - 439

Won't consider rushing, etc.

http://www.nfl.com/players/danmarino/careerstats?id=MAR149079

Career Stats
TDs - 420
INTs - 252
YDS - 61,361
RTG - 86.4
Games played - 242
Attempts - 8,358
Completions - 4,967
Completion % - 59.4%
Yards per Game - 253.6
TD % - 5
INT % - 3
Sacks - 270

Additional stats - Since they joined their respective teams (Fins and Packers), both QBs have only had 1 losing (below .500) season.

Marino played with 2 HOF: His Center, Dwight Stephenson 57, C (1980-87), Elected 1998; and his coach, Don Shula, Head Coach (1970-95), Elected 1997

Favre played with 1 HOF (Thus far): 92 Reggie White, DE, 1993-1998

Favre's rookie season was essentially a redshirt; one could state he played 16 seasons

Marino has fewer attempts, etc. due to one great advantage that Favre had: Marine got hurt in his career, Favre grinded it out through his injuries.

I recall Favre getting knocked hard in a game a few years back, staying in it, throwing a touchdown, then diagnosed with a concussion and left the game. How many QBs can say they drove their team and threw a TD during a game when they had a concussion?

At any rate, the stats show this: Favre has 22 more TDs, 26 more INTs, 294 more yards, .7 passer rating lower, 15 more total games played, 400 more attempts, 410 more completions, 2% more completions, 13.7 less yards per game, a higher TD to INT ratio (5:3.3 compared to 5:3), and many more sacks (169 more).

Overall:
Favre - More TDs, more INTs, more Yards, more Total games, more attempts, more completions, higher completion percentage
Marino - Higher passer rating, more yards per game, lower TD:INT ration, fewer sacks


Oh, almost forgot: Marino - 0 rings, Favre - 1 ring

And please don't use the argument that "Favre had more games to play in, so of course he'd get more records". The fact that (rookie season aside), he played in 16 consecutive seasons, all the games, and the playoff games, should not be used against him, but rather show a testiment of his toughness and durability, which are superior to Marino's. Also, stats show, he has 400 more attempts, but 410 more completions, higher percentage for completions. While it is true that he has many more INTs and higher TD-INT ratio than Marino, one must remember - Favre's style of play led to that. Not saying it is ok, but that is what Favre was known for - Cannon arm, gunslinger mentality, and passion for the game.


If you are calling a first ballot HOF QB, arguably one of the best EVER (I don't think we can state clear-cut who the single best QB who ever played the game was, perhaps it will be Manning or Brady when all is said and done), but to say he's overrated, means that every player who has ever laced up to play the QB position has to be overrated.

When people hype you up, you have to be worthy of that hype. With Favre being in the highest echelon of players who played the Quarterback position, how much 'higher' can you get? God? No, Favre is worthy of this hype, and as much as you people will hate it, Favre's legend will continue to go on for many years, and just as people talk about Marino constantly today as one of the best ever, people will continue to talk about Favre as one of the best ever. There will always be haters and those who dislike him for various reasons, but stats, and his style of playing, cannot be denied.

Favre did more than just play the game - he made the game fun to watch. I distinctly remember, when I was a kid, one of the first times I began to watch football on TV and see highlights, it was Favre and the Packers.

I am saddened, yet at the same time happy for Favre to retire, to go out on his own terms, rather than forced to retire due to injury or some other reason. The man didn't do it for the money (though that never hurts), he did it for the love of the game, something that you wish you saw more of in players nowadays.

You're comparing him to Marino, but no one cares about Marino...

Desert Demon wrote:

Nerd85 wrote:

Touchdown Jesus! wrote:

well you quoted mk when he said its easy to set record when you play until your 38 and you said "mk is right about this" so I just figured.

and INTs or not, favre averages only like 1 less PR then marino does. Having the INTs he has and still maintaining a PR like that is impressive. Not to mention GB has always been a passing team, what do you expect?

I expect him TO NOT THROW GOD DAMN INTERCEPTIONS

He has a gunslinger mentality, what do you expect?

While he does own the INT record, he got it because of his aggressive style of play, which is why people loved it when he played (along with the passion that he exhibited). He played as long as Marino, and imo got that TD fair and square. He never missed a game. How much more do you want a guy to not be considered 'overrated'?

************
Rant on NE Follows:

Oh I forgot, lemme jump on the NE Patriots BANDWAGON, and proclaim Brady the greatest of all time.

Not going to accuse anyone, but I personally found it interesting - 8 years ago, you couldn't find a soul who supported the Patriots (where I lived, there was 1 kid who liked them, and he was from up North, loved the Red Sox too). Nowadays, you can usually find at least one a day, no matter where you go, and at least a dozen in sports bars on game day.

Now, I support the Titans, and I started to like them from right before the Super Bowl vs the Rams, you could have considered me bandwagon then (I didn't have a reason other than I liked McNair), but I've stuck through with them through the down years, and have invested my time, money, and interest in them.

I'm just wondering how many of these "New England Patriots" fans are going to be around when Brady retires, BB moves on, and they crawl back to obscurity that they were dwelling in until the video tape era.

0-3 in Super Bowls outside the video taping era.
3-0 in Super Bowls during the video taping era.

Not going to say if the tapes did or did not help, but the facts show that BB has not been entirely forthcoming, and some questions are yet unanswered, but when one looks back on this decade during the 2020s, 2030s, don't you think they'll raise their eyebrows when they see that?

Now, if BB and Brady continue to win and win 3 of the next 5 SB or whatever, sure, great. However, those previous SB victories did play a role (and potentially those tapes). They helped establish a winning attitude and a desire in veteran players who wished to win to go there for less money.

How things would have been without the taping, no one will ever know. But those tapes could either have almost no significance in games (even at minimum, they helped for signals vs division rivals, and that's minimum), or those tapes could have unimaginable ramifications (influence championship teams, and future teams).

Meh.
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Back to Favre discussion:

http://www.nfl.com/history/randf/records/indiv/passing

Those are stats after the 2006 season, not updated for 2007 season yet, so we are going to use a reliable source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_(individual)

Most Pass Attempts, Career, 8,758, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Pass Completions, Career, 5,377, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Passing Touchdowns, Career, 442, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Passing Interceptions, Career, 288, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Passing Yards, Career, 61,657, Brett Favre, 1991-2008
Most Games, 300 Yards or More Passing, Career, 63, Brett Favre, 1991-2008

Leads 5 of the desirable categories for passing, 1 undesirable category


Now let's break down his stats against what is considered to be the "Gold Standard" for Quarterbacks for this time (I'm sure in the future, people will use Favre, Manning(Peyton), and Brady as the "Gold Standards"), Dan Marino:

http://www.nfl.com/players/careerstats?id=FAV540222

Career Stats
TDs - 442
INTs - 288
YDS - 61,655
RTG - 85.7
Games played - 257
Attempts - 8,758
Completions - 5,377
Completion % - 61.4%
Yards per Game - 239.9
TD % - 5
INT % - 3.3
Sacks - 439

Won't consider rushing, etc.

http://www.nfl.com/players/danmarino/careerstats?id=MAR149079

Career Stats
TDs - 420
INTs - 252
YDS - 61,361
RTG - 86.4
Games played - 242
Attempts - 8,358
Completions - 4,967
Completion % - 59.4%
Yards per Game - 253.6
TD % - 5
INT % - 3
Sacks - 270

Additional stats - Since they joined their respective teams (Fins and Packers), both QBs have only had 1 losing (below .500) season.

Marino played with 2 HOF: His Center, Dwight Stephenson 57, C (1980-87), Elected 1998; and his coach, Don Shula, Head Coach (1970-95), Elected 1997

Favre played with 1 HOF (Thus far): 92 Reggie White, DE, 1993-1998

Favre's rookie season was essentially a redshirt; one could state he played 16 seasons

Marino has fewer attempts, etc. due to one great advantage that Favre had: Marine got hurt in his career, Favre grinded it out through his injuries.

I recall Favre getting knocked hard in a game a few years back, staying in it, throwing a touchdown, then diagnosed with a concussion and left the game. How many QBs can say they drove their team and threw a TD during a game when they had a concussion?

At any rate, the stats show this: Favre has 22 more TDs, 26 more INTs, 294 more yards, .7 passer rating lower, 15 more total games played, 400 more attempts, 410 more completions, 2% more completions, 13.7 less yards per game, a higher TD to INT ratio (5:3.3 compared to 5:3), and many more sacks (169 more).

Overall:
Favre - More TDs, more INTs, more Yards, more Total games, more attempts, more completions, higher completion percentage
Marino - Higher passer rating, more yards per game, lower TD:INT ration, fewer sacks


Oh, almost forgot: Marino - 0 rings, Favre - 1 ring

And please don't use the argument that "Favre had more games to play in, so of course he'd get more records". The fact that (rookie season aside), he played in 16 consecutive seasons, all the games, and the playoff games, should not be used against him, but rather show a testiment of his toughness and durability, which are superior to Marino's. Also, stats show, he has 400 more attempts, but 410 more completions, higher percentage for completions. While it is true that he has many more INTs and higher TD-INT ratio than Marino, one must remember - Favre's style of play led to that. Not saying it is ok, but that is what Favre was known for - Cannon arm, gunslinger mentality, and passion for the game.


If you are calling a first ballot HOF QB, arguably one of the best EVER (I don't think we can state clear-cut who the single best QB who ever played the game was, perhaps it will be Manning or Brady when all is said and done), but to say he's overrated, means that every player who has ever laced up to play the QB position has to be overrated.

When people hype you up, you have to be worthy of that hype. With Favre being in the highest echelon of players who played the Quarterback position, how much 'higher' can you get? God? No, Favre is worthy of this hype, and as much as you people will hate it, Favre's legend will continue to go on for many years, and just as people talk about Marino constantly today as one of the best ever, people will continue to talk about Favre as one of the best ever. There will always be haters and those who dislike him for various reasons, but stats, and his style of playing, cannot be denied.

Favre did more than just play the game - he made the game fun to watch. I distinctly remember, when I was a kid, one of the first times I began to watch football on TV and see highlights, it was Favre and the Packers.

I am saddened, yet at the same time happy for Favre to retire, to go out on his own terms, rather than forced to retire due to injury or some other reason. The man didn't do it for the money (though that never hurts), he did it for the love of the game, something that you wish you saw more of in players nowadays.

1. Im not that much of a Patriots fan at all so dont know why you brought that up?
2. Have you been following Spy Gate? The commisioner took EVERY tape the Patriots had and their was NO evidence of taping before any Super Bowl and Bill Walsh never had a tape of the Rams walkthrough either.

Im not even a big fan of New England and ill tell you that Spy Gate is SOOOOOOO blown out of proportion because of one reason and one reason only. It is the Patriots. Everyone got so pissed off of their dominance and this gives them a reason to feel like their team is "superior" even though many former coaches have said that theyve done it and many teams in the NFL do it and will continue to do it. Its a common thing but noone wants to accept that fact because this gives them a reason to hate on the greatest team of this decade.

completely agreed with mk

and about the bandwagon fans, honestly i kinda wish we didnt have such good teams in boston so we wouldnt be grouped as bandwagon fans. i was about 7 when we won the first SB, and even then i didnt like football, i didnt start liking it until the 2003 season.

SoxNats08 wrote:

completely agreed with mk

and about the bandwagon fans, honestly i kinda wish we didnt have such good teams in boston so we wouldnt be grouped as bandwagon fans. i was about 7 when we won the first SB, and even then i didnt like football, i didnt start liking it until the 2003 season.

your from boston?

Touchdown Jesus! wrote:

SoxNats08 wrote:

completely agreed with mk

and about the bandwagon fans, honestly i kinda wish we didnt have such good teams in boston so we wouldnt be grouped as bandwagon fans. i was about 7 when we won the first SB, and even then i didnt like football, i didnt start liking it until the 2003 season.

your from boston?

yeah so am i