Trade Discussion

rejected the trade anyways

imevil wrote:

rejected the trade anyways

Yeah, care to tell me why and what I can add?

SilverNBlackAttack wrote:

Joke

Jets get
HB Frank Gore 93 24 5

49ers get
HB Thomas Jones 88 30 4
4th round pick #128
WR Brad Smith 78 24 1

I agree


Frank is worth more then those crummy players.

This is indeed a bullshit deal.

Gore is far and away better than Jones, Jones has maxed out, and is 6 years older (not to mention 5 OVR less), and on top Gore actually DOES produce in Madden.

The 4th is nothing but a depth filler.

Smith is not enough to add to Jones to even it up.

Jones plus a first in 09 might not be enough even, in my honest opinion.

Desert Demon wrote:

SilverNBlackAttack wrote:

Joke

Jets get
HB Frank Gore 93 24 5

49ers get
HB Thomas Jones 88 30 4
4th round pick #128
WR Brad Smith 78 24 1

I agree


Frank is worth more then those crummy players.

This is indeed a bullshit deal.

Gore is far and away better than Jones, Jones has maxed out, and is 6 years older (not to mention 5 OVR less), and on top Gore actually DOES produce in Madden.

The 4th is nothing but a depth filler.

Smith is not enough to add to Jones to even it up.

Jones plus a first in 09 might not be enough even, in my honest opinion.

I honestly dont care about the deal anymore but Jones does produce in Madden, he had a 4.6 YPC. I just never ran the ball.

Harper41 wrote:

Desert Demon wrote:

SilverNBlackAttack wrote:

Joke

Jets get
HB Frank Gore 93 24 5

49ers get
HB Thomas Jones 88 30 4
4th round pick #128
WR Brad Smith 78 24 1

I agree


Frank is worth more then those crummy players.

This is indeed a bullshit deal.

Gore is far and away better than Jones, Jones has maxed out, and is 6 years older (not to mention 5 OVR less), and on top Gore actually DOES produce in Madden.

The 4th is nothing but a depth filler.

Smith is not enough to add to Jones to even it up.

Jones plus a first in 09 might not be enough even, in my honest opinion.

I honestly dont care about the deal anymore but Jones does produce in Madden, he had a 4.6 YPC. I just never ran the ball.

If you never run the ball, then your YPC average carries little weight.

A 2nd string RB who gets 5 touches a game, and breaks a 40+ yard run once a game, will have a vastly superior YPC than someone who touches the rock 30+ times a game (Unless he really explodes in the game).

He ran the ball 200 times, so its a good sample size.

Harper41 wrote:

He ran the ball 200 times, so its a good sample size.

200 / 16 = 12.5

12.5 is not a good sample size, per game.

Say he runs for 36 yards on 12 carries. 36 yards, 3.0 ypc. Nothing special.

He busts one per game for 50.

Bam, 86 yards, 13 carries, 6.6 ypc.

20+ is a good sample size (Carries).

Obviously, teams that pass can't really 'use' ypc when their main back gets 15 or less carries per game - again, 2 long runs can skew the data.

He had 965 yards...If I ran more hed have over 1000 easy, which would make him a succesful starting RB in madden. Thomas Jones does perform, hes an 88 RB.

Harper41 wrote:

He had 965 yards...If I ran more hed have over 1000 easy, which would make him a succesful starting RB in madden. Thomas Jones does perform, hes an 88 RB.

965 yards / 16 games = roughly 60.3 yards per game.

You said that he had a 4.6 ypc.

60.3 ypg / 4.6 ypc = 13.1 carries per game.

13.1 carries per game is not enough to truly use "YPC" as an argument - Reason stated in my post above.

If you had a marker of how many long runs he had and such, then we can see whether he's a back who gets solid yardage when he touches, or if he merely has a few explosive plays.

But with 60 yards per game... a few carries of more than 10 yards, and isn't so glamorous.

And let's not forget situations.

Perhaps, late game, while down, your team decided to have one run play, where he runs 20 on a nickel defense. It was a situational run, defense was not expecting it, and skews the data.

Again, if he ran 20+ per game, then I would believe it.

Your not giving me any evidence as to why Thomas Jones doesnt perform. I have his yards and YPC to go off and those both tell me hes performing.

Harper41 wrote:

Your not giving me any evidence as to why Thomas Jones doesnt perform. I have his yards and YPC to go off and those both tell me hes performing.

60 yards per game is performing?

Someone hasn't watched football lately (at all, for that matter, if 60 ypg is 'performing').

And I've already shown in 2 posts how YPC does NOT matter when you get few touches, and yes, 13.1 is FEW for a RB.

As I said, a back with 20+ carries per game, CAN use YPC as a 'Good' indicator of his performance.

A guy with only 60 yards per game, and 13 carries, who knows if half of those yards come from one carry? Then 30 yards for 12 carries, total crap.

And I repeat myself - if we knew the total runs of 20+, 40+, etc. we can FURTHER piece what kind of runner Thomas is - a solid, get those few yards every time, or a "I need one big play" type of back.

Desert Demon wrote:

Harper41 wrote:

Your not giving me any evidence as to why Thomas Jones doesnt perform. I have his yards and YPC to go off and those both tell me hes performing.

60 yards per game is performing?

Someone hasn't watched football lately (at all, for that matter, if 60 ypg is 'performing').

And I've already shown in 2 posts how YPC does NOT matter when you get few touches, and yes, 13.1 is FEW for a RB.

As I said, a back with 20+ carries per game, CAN use YPC as a 'Good' indicator of his performance.

A guy with only 60 yards per game, and 13 carries, who knows if half of those yards come from one carry? Then 30 yards for 12 carries, total crap.

And I repeat myself - if we knew the total runs of 20+, 40+, etc. we can FURTHER piece what kind of runner Thomas is - a solid, get those few yards every time, or a "I need one big play" type of back.

Yes in my offense that was performing, quite well actually. I didnt ask Jones to be a 120+ yard back everygame, I was a pass heavy offense that relied on Jones once in a while, for all you know he could be getting 4 yards everytime he touches the ball for all I know he could be getting 1, 1, 2, 30. The point is neither of us know, so he could be performing he could not be but in my book 980+ yards on 200 carries is definetly performing. Ill take it so now please stop worrying about my RB so much.

if you are suggesting [perhaps] the only reason that Thomas Jones has got a ypc of 4.6 is because of occasional gains in which he gets 40+ yards, then you would be assuming that he is able to get a 40+ yard burst each game. If my HB consistantly gets a sequence of -2 yards, 3 yards, 2 yards, 48 yards, then I would qualify him as an excellent back. Afterall, thats how Barry Sanders played. So saying Thomas Jones sucks because you assume he gets short gains followed by the occasional big gain would have to assume that he does so on a game-to-game basis. Which essentially defeats the purpose of arguing that random bursts influence a consistant system.

Harper41 wrote:

Desert Demon wrote:

Harper41 wrote:

Your not giving me any evidence as to why Thomas Jones doesnt perform. I have his yards and YPC to go off and those both tell me hes performing.

60 yards per game is performing?

Someone hasn't watched football lately (at all, for that matter, if 60 ypg is 'performing').

And I've already shown in 2 posts how YPC does NOT matter when you get few touches, and yes, 13.1 is FEW for a RB.

As I said, a back with 20+ carries per game, CAN use YPC as a 'Good' indicator of his performance.

A guy with only 60 yards per game, and 13 carries, who knows if half of those yards come from one carry? Then 30 yards for 12 carries, total crap.

And I repeat myself - if we knew the total runs of 20+, 40+, etc. we can FURTHER piece what kind of runner Thomas is - a solid, get those few yards every time, or a "I need one big play" type of back.

Yes in my offense that was performing, quite well actually. I didnt ask Jones to be a 120+ yard back everygame, I was a pass heavy offense that relied on Jones once in a while, for all you know he could be getting 4 yards everytime he touches the ball for all I know he could be getting 1, 1, 2, 30. The point is neither of us know, so he could be performing he could not be but in my book 980+ yards on 200 carries is definetly performing. Ill take it so now please stop worrying about my RB so much.

That red statement right there, is the reason why a 13 carry back (per game) cannot have YPC taken as seriously as a back getting 20+ carries per game.

And Yes, I have said that multiple times, IF we knew how many runs he had over 20 yards, 40, etc. then we can get a better estimate on what 'type' of runner he is.

Touchdown Jesus! wrote:

if you are suggesting [perhaps] the only reason that Thomas Jones has got a ypc of 4.6 is because of occasional gains in which he gets 40+ yards, then you would be assuming that he is able to get a 40+ yard burst each game. If my HB consistantly gets a sequence of -2 yards, 3 yards, 2 yards, 48 yards, then I would qualify him as an excellent back. Afterall, thats how Barry Sanders played. So saying Thomas Jones sucks because you assume he gets short gains followed by the occasional big gain would have to assume that he does so on a game-to-game basis. Which essentially defeats the purpose of arguing that random bursts influence a consistant system.

Touchdown Jesus! wrote:

if you are suggesting [perhaps] the only reason that Thomas Jones has got a ypc of 4.6 is because of occasional gains in which he gets 40+ yards, then you would be assuming that he is able to get a 40+ yard burst each game. If my HB consistantly gets a sequence of -2 yards, 3 yards, 2 yards, 48 yards, then I would qualify him as an excellent back. Afterall, thats how Barry Sanders played. So saying Thomas Jones sucks because you assume he gets short gains followed by the occasional big gain would have to assume that he does so on a game-to-game basis. Which essentially defeats the purpose of arguing that random bursts influence a consistant system.

13 carries, 60 yards.

2 x 15 = 30
3 x 5 = 15
8 x 1.875 = 15

He's giving you a guaranteed 2 first downs, and possibly a few more, depending on the down and distance, and how the 'runs' are strung together.

I wouldn't want that - stalls drives.

Sure, that right there, he's got 2 first downs from scrimmage, then 3 plays where he picks up half the yardage, but then he's got 8 plays, or 61.5%, that he gets less than 2 yards per carry. When my RB picks up good yardage on only 39.5% of his carries, that isn't good for my offense.

Sure, having that 40+ burst is great, but if you are on your own 20, get that 40, now you are on your opponenets 40, but cannot move the ball AT ALL, unless you are within a few feet of the goalline, those other runs are killing a drive.

And what's this:



He got 947 yards (NOT the 980+) on 205 carries, with 6 TDs.

Now, yes, he accounted for 50% of the team's rushing (visible) TDs, but considering his QBs had a total of 16 passing (and there are a visible 12 rushing), the team obviously had trouble scoring, and Jones didn't help much.

By comparison, Edge James, who was pitiful from a rush statistic point of view, still had 4 TDs.

And bringing in a "real life' comparison of Barry Sanders is very interesting, and I do understand THAT point, but Jones is no Barry, and what Barry did was real life, not a simulation.

Seneca wasnt my QB for the entire season, Kellen Clemens started a good 8 games for me I believe.

Harper41 wrote:

Seneca wasnt my QB for the entire season, Kellen Clemens started a good 8 games for me I believe.

How is that possible?

8 games would be past the week 6 trade deadline (if he played the first part of the season).

If he played the 8 games the second half of the season, then 'technically' he would still be on your roster for the statistics to show prior to trades during the offseason, no?

I actually believe Sox pushed back the trade deadline to week 10, I could be wrong though, and if I am then Kellen started a good 6 games for me. Point is Seneca wasnt my starting QB all season and was a backup in Seattle, hence his low numbers.

Harper41 wrote:

Seneca wasnt my QB for the entire season, Kellen Clemens started a good 8 games for me I believe.

This is what is so wonderful about you Harper, you love to do these little exhaggerations:

Quote :

5/10/08

Trade #128

JEts GEt:
MLB Lofa Tatupu 95 / 2 / 23
QB Senaca Wallace 82 / 4 / 27
-still cant believe i traded him

Seattle Get:
MLB David Harris 86 (23) 4
QB Kellen Clemens 77 (24) 4
Jets First ROund Draft Pick
CowBoys Second round draft pick

May 3rd was week 6, May 11th was week 7.

You traded him after week 6, but before week 7 'officially' began, so I suppose that what was 6 weeks in this league was in fact, 8 weeks in YOUR mind.

Seeing how Pennington only got 127 yards and 1 TD, it's safe to say that's either from playing one game where Clemens or Seneca were injured, or simply adding up a few 'plays' that one of your QBs missed.

At any rate, 6 games with Clemens, 10 games with Wallace, and Pennington getting some playing time.

6 games = 37.5%

You had Clemens for 37.5% of the season, and Wallace for 62.5% of the season. A long way away from the 50% that you 'claimed'.

Harper41 wrote:

I actually believe Sox pushed back the trade deadline to week 10, I could be wrong though, and if I am then Kellen started a good 6 games for me. Point is Seneca wasnt my starting QB all season and was a backup in Seattle, hence his low numbers.

If that is true, then my apologies on the trade deadline, but all the same, Clemens was only 6 weeks with you.

Point is, Seneca had 15 TDs over 10 games.

You do that math over 16 games (15/10 = x/16), and you still end up with 24 TDs (and 12.8, or 13 INTs).

I didnt exagherate, Im sorry I dont feel like pin pointing the date I traded for Seneca Wallace. Im sorry you have the attention span and the time to do that, but to be compeltely honest I dont give a flying fuck. I was 2 weeks off, you caught me, do you want a fucking cookie? Do you think your fucking special now? How about this. Get the fuck over yourself. I dont give a shit how good or bad Thomas Jones or my offense performed last season. You continue to argue about something I dont care about and its dumb as hell. Worry about your own team and ill worry about mine.

I dont keep a little log of how many weeks I had so and so and when I traded him, im so sorry the almighty Desert Demon, get the pole out of your ass and stop taking things so literal. You continue to try and "own" me over every little thing and its quite humerous. Thomas Jones didnt get a lot of TDs, you figured it out by looking at a picture, congratulations you pass 2nd grade. I dont care about Thomas Jones or Senece Wallace or Kellen Clemens or Chad Pennington so if you would kindly shut the fuck up, I would really appreciate it.

Clemens:

18 TDs, 6 INTs over 16 games.

Splitting it into 6 games turns out to be roughly 6.75 TDs and 2.25 INTs.



Of course, if we truly wanted to see the 'full' picture, we would then analyze the score of each game, determine how many TDs the teams had up to week 6, then how many the Jets had after week 6, to get a good 'estimate' of whether Clemens performed better, on average, with the Jets, or with the Hawks, and where he had most of his stats.

Do you not understand what im saying? I dont fucking care how Thomas Jones did. Do you need a picture?


Do you understand now?

Harper41 wrote:

I didnt exagherate, Im sorry I dont feel like pin pointing the date I traded for Seneca Wallace. Im sorry you have the attention span and the time to do that, but to be compeltely honest I dont give a flying fuck. I was 2 weeks off, you caught me, do you want a fucking cookie? Do you think your fucking special now? How about this. Get the fuck over yourself. I dont give a shit how good or bad Thomas Jones or my offense performed last season. You continue to argue about something I dont care about and its dumb as hell. Worry about your own team and ill worry about mine.

I dont keep a little log of how many weeks I had so and so and when I traded him, im so sorry the almighty Desert Demon, get the pole out of your ass and stop taking thinks so literal. You continue to try and "own" me over every little thing and its quite humerous. Thomas Jones didnt get a lot of TDs, you figured it out by looking at a picture, congratulations you pass 2nd grade. I dont care about Thomas Jones or Senece Wallace or Kellen Clemens or Chad Pennington so if you would kindly shut the fuck up, I would really appreciate it.

Seems as though I've finally cracked him


It's not hard to figure out when you trade a player - I went to archives, approved trades, then keyword search "Kellen C", one click of 'search' for each page (Four Total!) and you easily find the trade.

Then you just take a look at the sim dates for the weeks.

Not that difficult

Admins and Trade Mods did a smart thing by posting dates of trades.


And I just find it amusing how I can analyze and refute your claims, and eventually you get really pissed off and make a two paragraph post about how you don't care about it and how I am trying to 'own' you (which I have) and how I 'care' about your team and you don't.

Plus I like all the cursing. Remind me of this one 'motivation' style poster I saved on my computer (Yeah, I like to 'save' those posters in a file, it's funny to go through and read them in the down time, or share with friends):